tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post2483783382797698689..comments2023-10-31T12:49:57.461+00:00Comments on Beames on Film: Men of Steel - Sexism and the New SupermanRobert Beameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03989843762343798504noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-55633728996859973982013-08-26T23:05:07.690+01:002013-08-26T23:05:07.690+01:00Thank you so, so, SO much for this article. It'...Thank you so, so, SO much for this article. It's simple, clear and it expresses exactly my thoughts about the film.<br />You can't understand how much I was disappointed by seeing Man of Steel.<br /><br />"Superman" is a wonderful comic character, but the film interpretation really doesn't do him any favours. And Lois Lane, ugh.<br />It's always a nasty surprise to discover that the Damsel In Distress Theme it's still a thing.<br /><br />Forgive me for my terrible English!<br /><br />Marta.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-73695680350587317982013-08-23T06:15:10.740+01:002013-08-23T06:15:10.740+01:00Yes! Thank you. I'm so glad other people see...Yes! Thank you. I'm so glad other people see this. And don't forget that sexism goes both ways: all of the men are portrayed as these tough, unemotional characters who are always supposed to save the day. Being a male, this stereotype gets super frustrating. D:Griffinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17952188225598990084noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-43846351931208919232013-06-18T00:03:16.363+01:002013-06-18T00:03:16.363+01:00Yeah, I didn't understand the other comment bu...Yeah, I didn't understand the other comment but, apologies, I seem to have missed his point. Hands held up, and thanks for pointing that out.<br /><br />On your last point, "of all the problems to have with this movie": this isn't my main or only problem with the movie. I have loads of problems with this movie. However lots of people (comic book writers Mark Waid and Brian Bendis, Chris Sims at ComicsAlliance and the guys at the AVClub, to name a few) have made all those points better than I could. This is just something I noticed that I hadn't read about elsewhere and, for me at least, it was relevant. Especially as I was reading Birthright just before I saw the film and - whilst taking so many things from that comic specifically - it downplays the role of many of the female characters.<br /><br />To be clear: I'm not against the male representations in the film. I never accused it of being too macho or whatever. It would just have been nice for Clark's mums to have bigger roles in what went down.<br /><br />And, as far as a lack of sexual exploitation goes, I'm not about to praise a movie for just not doing something wrong. You say that's common in comic books and comic book movies - but not ones I like. And if it does occur in one I like, I'd say it was an element I didn't enjoy.<br /><br />If Man of Steel was a great movie in all other respects, then I'd say so and I'd have enjoyed it. This business I spoke about above was just another of many things wrong with it, from top to bottom.Robert Beameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03989843762343798504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-27405088036077298052013-06-17T16:25:12.361+01:002013-06-17T16:25:12.361+01:00As far as sexism goes. I believe we'd all agr...As far as sexism goes. I believe we'd all agree that if their was a job opening, and all the women were told to go the back of the line, so that the men could get a shot first, that this would be sexism.<br /><br />But also, if one of the captains of latest cruiseliner blunder called for women and children to take to the limited number of relief boats first, we'd call that heroic. Yet it's still sexist. It's a dividing of the sexes that I, as man, am willing to up hold.<br /><br />This is amazing, a movie with no sexual exploitation of women, which is common in comic books, is found to be sexist. Even though the name of the film is "Man of steel". I'm mean dude really, out of all the problems to have with this movie.CloudKickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04535186692246896593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-69935152704588072782013-06-17T16:14:02.916+01:002013-06-17T16:14:02.916+01:00Mr. Beames, I believe the guy you are arguing with...Mr. Beames, I believe the guy you are arguing with now is on your side. CloudKickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04535186692246896593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-35330360679186983842013-06-17T09:05:57.238+01:002013-06-17T09:05:57.238+01:00And there you go again. Please stop using retarded...And there you go again. Please stop using retarded as a derogatory term on my blog. I don't care you say you are. You're clearly using it to be negative about my article, and that's not cool. Just say you thought the article was rubbish or whatever - don't bring "retarded" into it.<br /><br />And on this: <br />You might as well say, "why didn't he make Superman a woman this time, since he was taking so much liberty with the film".<br />No, he's a man. And yes that is sexist. But sexism isn't always bad. Neither is racism always bad. Misogyny is bad, yet it is not in this film.<br /><br />This has literally nothing to do with anything I wrote. I was complaining about anything of the sort. Is asking for a little more dialogue and agency for the female characters the same thing as wishing there were fewer male characters? Of course it isn't.<br /><br />Oh, and sexism is always bad. Because it means this:<br />"Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex."<br /><br />Prejudice = wrong.<br /><br />And "the old woman who does not cower" - isn't she the leader who doomed the planet against Russell Crowe's wise advice by mining the core and causing it to implode? Yes... very strong female character.Robert Beameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03989843762343798504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-73937753740132174842013-06-17T09:01:05.251+01:002013-06-17T09:01:05.251+01:00I have no idea what any of what you said means. I ...I have no idea what any of what you said means. I thought Man of Steel was sexist. Whether or not you think that's a bad thing is your call.<br /><br />It was also a lot of other things - namely badly scripted, soulless, joyless CGI-fest, but this is the aspect of it I felt like writing about yesterday because a lot of that other ground has been covered elsewhere.<br /><br />What I thought was clear from the article, but which I might have to repeat, is the fact that I'm explicitly comparing the way the origin was done here with how it was done in Birthright (a clear source for the film), with an emphasis on the way the mothers were represented. People commenting on here seem to be calling me out for things I didn't say.Robert Beameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03989843762343798504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-65177127190245119712013-06-17T06:26:15.223+01:002013-06-17T06:26:15.223+01:00Whoops, I meant "misandry," not "an...Whoops, I meant "misandry," not "androgyny."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-49207246276853304522013-06-17T06:24:15.154+01:002013-06-17T06:24:15.154+01:00I don't think you understand what sexism means...I don't think you understand what sexism means. A person can be male and that wouldn't be sexist. I have yet to come across a situation where either sexism or racism was acceptable. And misogyny is just one branch of sexism; there's also androgyny. If misogyny is bad, and sexism isn't always bad, then can we assume that you mean that sexism when geared towards men (andro) falls into your category of "not always bad,"? From a logical perspective based on information you provided this is the only conclusion I can draw. Yet I doubt you would agree with this conclusion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-83944564107616970482013-06-16T22:33:12.438+01:002013-06-16T22:33:12.438+01:00No not the same thing. I don't believe I'...No not the same thing. I don't believe I'm retarded, and I've said a whole lot of retarded things in my life. Yet I guess it was your turn this time, with this article.<br /><br />SPOILER:<br />There are some things wrong with this movie, but misogyny wasn't one of them. Why the first leader we see in the film is an old woman who does not cower. <br /><br />You might as well say, "why didn't he make Superman a woman this time, since he was taking so much liberty with the film".<br />No, he's a man. And yes that is sexist. But sexism isn't always bad. Neither is racism always bad. Misogyny is bad, yet it is not in this film.CloudKickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04535186692246896593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-81974879254252065202013-06-16T20:51:50.785+01:002013-06-16T20:51:50.785+01:00You said the article was retarded, which is the sa...You said the article was retarded, which is the same thing - in so much as you're using retarded as a derogatory term.Robert Beameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03989843762343798504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-14640679233531709322013-06-16T19:39:37.668+01:002013-06-16T19:39:37.668+01:00I didn't call you retarded.
And I kind of agr...I didn't call you retarded.<br /><br />And I kind of agree with you on the kiss scene. Neither earned that, but if anyone who was more rewarded by the kiss, it was Lois. C'mon, I'm not gay, but if dude just saved my life and the whole world, and can fly, it may hard for me not to be smitten in moment. <br /><br />CloudKickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04535186692246896593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-63799683386321772522013-06-16T15:46:35.199+01:002013-06-16T15:46:35.199+01:00Yeah, I was going to write something about the Nol...Yeah, I was going to write something about the Nolan Batman films in here but didn't want to stray off-topic too much. For the record: I love The Dark Knight and enjoy Batman Begins, but that trilogy takes place in some sort of sterile, A-sexual universe, for sure.<br /><br />And - as with most tellings of the Batman story - all the emphasis is on his father, and what he stood for. His poor mum's death is a footnote.Robert Beameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03989843762343798504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-277736233688234542013-06-16T15:42:54.567+01:002013-06-16T15:42:54.567+01:00With all respect, when you start writing things li...With all respect, when you start writing things like "mangina pandering" and call me "retarded", it's then hard to take any of your points seriously.<br /><br />And what is a "weak shrew who wants everyone to know she can count and read"? And how does that relate to anything I wrote?<br /><br />The relationship he had with his mum years later? That isn't in this movie at all. Unless you count the bit where he left her for dead so he could help destroy a small town, or the bit where a reporter turns up so she reveals his identity?<br /><br />I took issue with the fact that strong elements of the Birthright story by Mark Waid have been included, but all the dialogue given to the male characters. That's just a fact. That's what happened. If you don't think that's sexist, then that's your right. And I respectfully disagree with you.<br /><br />And to the anonymous above: the fact that the villain lady killed a bunch of guys doesn't make her a strong character - you're mistaking physical strength with character strength.<br /><br />And on the point of the women not being sexualised: you're correct. They were not overtly sexualised. However, the kiss scene was not earned by the movie at all (they had next to no chemistry and barely any scenes together up to that moment), so it does turn Lois' character into a typical movie "love interest" by default. She, like so many movie women, becomes something to be won by the hero. He completes his goal and is rewarded with the woman, as an extension of a male empowerment fantasy. That's not exactly groundbreaking and commendable in the way you suggest. Robert Beameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03989843762343798504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-12195399918740719262013-06-16T15:14:37.496+01:002013-06-16T15:14:37.496+01:00I concur with you sir. This is some real hyperbol...I concur with you sir. This is some real hyperbolic mangina pandering. The problem is the author of this article doesn't see the attributes you mentioned about the women in this film to be strong.<br /><br />This is so retarded. Ask majority of women what they thought of the Superman character? He was uber masculine, and that is the idea isn't it. And thus strong in his on way. Both mother's in this movie, came off as strong pillars in their families. Not some weak shrew who just wants to prove to everyone that she can count and read. True strength, doesn't need to be out front, or famous. Look at the relationship Clark had with his mom years later, that's strength character.CloudKickerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04535186692246896593noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-22616134919168818012013-06-16T14:38:12.740+01:002013-06-16T14:38:12.740+01:00What a load of nonsense. You honestly just feel li...What a load of nonsense. You honestly just feel like complaining about something. Why not commend the fact that at no point in this movie were women over sexualized? There wasn't a single scantily clad woman in this movie. When was the last time you saw a big budget movie without a woman in some sort of undress or ridiculously revealing outfit? All the women were strong, starting from Kal-el's mom going through natural child birth to being strong and sending her child to another planet to save him. Lois Lane going toe-to-toe with army generals and top scientists and proving she's their equal. And the there's commander Faora who is arguably the most badass character in the movie. She takes down a squad of army rangers and thrashes superman by herself! You're wrong. Your article is a load of rubbish.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-47421392692998166122013-06-16T14:35:38.065+01:002013-06-16T14:35:38.065+01:00Blatant misogyny and the patriarchal diatribes of ...Blatant misogyny and the patriarchal diatribes of Marlon Brando's Jor-El are the reasons I cannot stomach Superman The Movie, Superman 2/ The Donner cut and Superman Returns. <br /><br />The same patriarchal propaganda is laced throughout Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy- Batman Begins.<br /><br />Apparenly women/ mothers have no input when raising their sons....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2718046465562929451.post-62934712248902671592013-06-16T13:33:35.691+01:002013-06-16T13:33:35.691+01:00muh sexismmuh sexismAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com